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Concept: Start of a league - Playoffs

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Concept: Start of a league - Playoffs

Post  Johnny KTOU on 2013-09-30, 07:36

That won't be for this year as the new Tournament and League have already started, but it could be an idea for the next one. My issue with the current formùat is that not everyone can make it every single week, so i wanted to find a solution that wouldn't delay the run of tournament as well as allowing everyone to play, as long as they could play at least a few matches.

It's based on the fluff (p38): after the NAF collapse, NBC and Orcidas organised the Chaos Open, consisting of Play Offs followed by followed by Semi Finals & Finals; basically a big mess where any team played any opponent within a time frame and the best 4 teams with the most points went on to a quick knock out tournament.

So what if we had a similar format? All teams are playing during 5 weeks (or even more if we were to have a whole season like this), each week the opponents are drawn randomly amongst the ones present. After 5 weeks we add points for the best 3 games (or more if season) and we either have our winner, or we carry on for two more weeks for a KO tournament (4 players, 2 rounds). Points could be something like 500 W, 300 D, 100 L, and then bonus points to avoid draws.

Out of the 5 games you only need to be there for 3 (actually could even play less, but wouldn't be able to win) + the 4 winners would play two more games.

It would actually be brilliant for a whole season as we wouldn't make it last forever, but the tournament would still carry on. Lots of big only tournaments have followed this format, and it works.

Food for thought.
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Re: Concept: Start of a league - Playoffs

Post  Ninjagosplat on 2013-09-30, 11:55

that sounds to me like a very good idea Smile
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Re: Concept: Start of a league - Playoffs

Post  BDA on 2013-09-30, 12:53

that could work out really well Smile
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Re: Concept: Start of a league - Playoffs

Post  Giraffe on 2013-10-02, 17:58

Without structure to bloodbowl leegs, the weaker teams have no chance to catch the more established teams, past a certain point. I know inducements help, but only so far. Not only that, but a schedule allows people to plan gaming around their work and family commitments. When i know I've GOT to be at club, i warn my boss and go in early to minimise the chance of him asking me to work late. Not every eventuality can be dealt with like this, but if I end up missing out, at least I know its unavoidable, and take it on the chin.
The solution to successful leegs, I think in both bloodbowl and other games, is getting people to commit. I've tried what you suggest several times, it never works.

plus the admin would be more time consuming.

the open leeg exists to cater for bloodbowlers who cannot commit to regular play.
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Re: Concept: Start of a league - Playoffs

Post  Johnny KTOU on 2013-10-03, 00:44

The first and last bits are just not true. Inducements balances this out pretty well for a start, but this IS also WHY the Open League is here for. It's NOT to cater for players who "can't commit": it is for proper team building, BB awareness (play anytime), practice, and also being able to play with several races without getting stuck with it for an entire year.

So far we've been playing "closed loop" leagues, starting with new teams, play low TVs and then start again the following year - it actually is not very balanced either in a sense, as all teams have a different level of competitiveness depending on how high their TV is. This is why team building is important.

Hopefully now we're entering the perpetual part where building is essential. Sure a 1.1k team vs a 2.5k one is a no brainer; but the current format does not cover that either anyway: in a league or two lots of teams will be above the 1.5k and then it will get interesting. Besides, this is how Blood Bowl is supposed to be played: star players, wizards, special play cards... We just never got round to that bit. I've played a lot of online tournaments (not cyanide, but cyanide validates the point too) and it's worked pretty well for me so far, as well as for thousands of players - believe me, a Wizard is a great leveler...

Regarding committing. Commiting for one day is one thing. Committing to an entire month is a different thing entirely. I don't technically have a "boss" where I am; I choose my days off, and Tuesday IS my day off, full stop, so that I know I can commit when I have a game.

However last week, it turned out I had to work that Tuesday in Winchester, due to being understaffed. I can be at the club every week normally, but last Tuesday I just could not be there. In all honesty, for everyone, it very likely that there will be something happening once a month to someone; as simple as that. And that's not due to lack of commitement. Kids, work, holiday, family, you name it... "Well done for the first two rounds. You got take care of your kids exceptionally next week? Tough mate, you're out." Not exactly the spirit we want... What happened there, you didn't encourage me to commit, you're making me think twice about putting my £2.50 down for next time.

Now that I got it out, it is how it is, it doesn't matter; let's be constructive now and plan for what's next.

It's not just a random system I've plucked from the fluff. It's a system like the round robins, KO tournaments and all that. This system particularly allows for some flexibility. People commit to play several days over a period of time while still being competitive and participate; instead of commiting for one full uninterrupted month just to be allowed to play.

And you're right, maybe I wouldn't turn up if I didnt have a game, or if it wasn't likely that I was going to have one. That's true. But at the end of the day it's the same thing at the moment: you're rolling for opponents when everyone is here, and it won't always be even numbers. We could even organise matches between us and whoever is left can roll randomly between themselves. It doesn't really matter as we're only counting a certain number of "best games". But rolling is definitely better, more exciting Smile

We could for example be organising rounds during the week, with people entering the week's round before 6:30pm (by guaranteeing and commiting that they will be here). Text, call, forum, whats app, whatever.
The roll for opponents could then be done at the start of the evening like you've done, or even before that, on the forum if one don't want to turn up without beeing GUARANTEED a game. Once committed for the day, tough if you don't turn up, automatic concession against the opponent randomly drawn. It is a drawback for your team (high SSP players might leave, giving away a minor win, loss of FF...), but you're still in.

The only change to the current format basically is the point system that allows some flexibility by "missing" a week or two over a period of time. You stay competitive as long as you're playing a minimum of games, and the last two weeks of knock out tournament will clearly decide the winner (whereas the play offs could give 3 very easy draws to someone, the KO tournament balances that to decide the winner)
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Re: Concept: Start of a league - Playoffs

Post  Giraffe on 2013-10-03, 01:11

Its still more open to abuse, and too confusing for New players.

plus in our seasons, we only have to commit to one match a month.

I got to be honest, I disagree even more fervently now I've just read your last post.

But I do perhaps have a compromise...

maybe we could include our treasuries and tv at the end of each season, and give teams with lower totals the extra cash to spend?

it would make it harder for teams to get a massive advantage in the first place.

And I'm sorry mate, the inducements are mostly a poor substitute for tv, even a gap of 20-30 tv makes it almost impossible to win.

but anyway, there's nothing stopping you doing what you like with either the openleeg (which is your baby anyway), or perhaps even a totally new leeg.

jimmy jazz or someone was saying last week we could open a leeg for BRGANS to play on fumbll ... Why not try that?

then perhaps you could play on the train home via your phone
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Re: Concept: Start of a league - Playoffs

Post  Johnny KTOU on 2013-10-03, 01:37

Giraffe wrote:Its still more open to abuse don't see how, generated the same way, and too confusing for New players do I need to remind you that english isn't my mother tongue? Sounds too complicated? Write it simple: Random opponent, win=good; followed by tournament for the players with the most points. Better?.

plus in our seasons, we only have to commit to one match a month. I am talking about the cup that was before that, not replacing the full league itself. And even so, why not? We've all seen that Leagues dragging out isn't working well for us with people dropping out and all that. A Cup with that format allows to run an entire tournament within two months without forcing everyone to commit every week and even allows people dropping out without affecting everyone else. In between, the Open Leeg helps for team building, recup matches... Besides, with shorter leagues, it could go something like: Blood Bowl Cup for 2 months, 40k for two months, ...

I got to be honest, I disagree even more fervently now I've just read your last post. about what?

But I do perhaps have a compromise...

maybe we could include our treasuries and tv at the end of each season, and give teams with lower totals the extra cash to spend? doesn't affect the team building, spps and all that

it would make it harder for teams to get a massive advantage in the first place.

And I'm sorry mate, the inducements are mostly a poor substitute for tv, even a gap of 20-30 tv makes it almost impossible to win. You need to play more high TV league games Frank. Wizard are game changers for a start, some stars are very very good. Of course a higher TV is more likely to win. But a bloated TV, no. This is about team building, not just one off matches. Playing at low TV is one thing; playing at all TVs is way better - try Chaos

but anyway, there's nothing stopping you doing what you like with either the openleeg (which is your baby anyway), or perhaps even a totally new leeg. . . . There we go; you'd made your mind up when you saw the first post. Always been constructive and open to suggestions... not sure why I tried, silly me

jimmy jazz or someone was saying last week we could open a leeg for BRGANS to play on fumbll ... Why not try that? I play on FUMBBL just fine; if more join, great, we can create a league there! I thought we wanted more players at the club though? Suspect 

then perhaps you could play on the train home via your phone looks like I'm gonna end up doing just that Rolling Eyes 
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