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Feel No Pain

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Feel No Pain

Post  Johnny KTOU on 2010-11-02, 23:21

I hate having arguments like that... Sorry Steve if it got a bit heated up... Well my post on Warseer (please tell if this is not the question we were arguing about):

The rule is: "... Neither can it be used against wounds from AP1 and AP2 weapons, power weapons and any other wound against no armour save can ever be taken (like wounds from power fists, Dreadnought close combat weapons, rending weapons that roll a 6, Perils of the Warp, failed dangerous terrain tests, etc)."

1/ Does that mean I can not use Feel No Pain against a bolter (AP5) with Harker ?

2/ Does that mean I can not use Feel No Pain either against Inferno bolts from Thousand sons (AP3) with Space Marines ?

3/ Does that mean I can't use Feel No Pain with Nobz Bikers against AP4 weapons ?

4/ A bit of an over stretched, does that mean Deamons can't use it at all as they don't have an armour save (only Invulnerable save)

Many thanks !

The thread waiting for the answer:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281585
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Re: Feel No Pain

Post  Johnny KTOU on 2010-11-03, 06:04

Feel No Pain is ignored by a weapon that never allows armour saves, not one that doesn't allow armour saves if you're shooting it at a specific unit. AP4 weapons sometimes ignore saves, and so they don't ignore FnP, even if they currently are ignoring your save.

I do hope forkbanger simply missed your negations. Very Happy

AP5, 4 and 3 do not "negate armour saves period", which is why 1/, 2/ and 3/ are best answered with a resounding "NO! You do infact get your FnP in that instance!*"

*EDIT: Unless of course the attacks would happen to inflict instant death. Thanks, Culven. Won't be seeing a whole lot of that from Bolters/Inferno Bolts though. A Battle Cannon however, for example, still denies FNP for Biker Nobs (just as easily as it does for normal ones, seeing how Instant Death depends on base Toughness. Wanted to mention this due to OP bringing up Biker Nobs in particular).

As for 4/, the fact that Daemons don't have armour saves doesn't affect their ability to benefit fron FnP at all.

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Re: Feel No Pain

Post  Brother Renton on 2010-11-03, 21:45

After reading all on WarSeer i think this is the one that explans it the best....

Originally Posted by Noob
If you read the feel no pain rule, it states that "If a model with this ability suffers an unsaved wound, roll 1,2 or 3. take the wound as normal"

so for example - A trooper with a SV4+ is hit with a weopon with AP4. the trooper doesnt get a saving roll but does he get a FNP roll?
because the rule states "and other wounds which no armour save can ever be taken"
- he's not getting a save roll so does this mean no Feel no pain roll too?

does this make sense or am i mad?
It goes on to give examples of what ignores with no possible armor save. The best way to think of it (IMHO) is to ask would a terminator get his normal (2+) armor save, if the answer is yes then FnP applies, if the answer is no then FnP does not apply.


Edit: I hope this posts, it seems I am having trouble posting so hopefully no double or triple posts
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Re: Feel No Pain

Post  gonetoground on 2010-11-08, 10:14

Johnny KTOU wrote:I hate having arguments like that... Sorry Steve if it got a bit heated up... Well my post on Warseer (please tell if this is not the question we were arguing about):

That fine mate, I too got a bit overheated- and I apologise . It just seems like we seem to go over and over this one. I think the answer to this one is diffciult and I can honestly see arguments for both cases. It seems that even online there is a debate over this still, which is a sad tribute to the wording in the BRB. However having looked at it I am forced to (reluctantly Rolling Eyes agree with Stephane) in that:

in an example of say 5 space marines (with a medic or something that gives them FNP) are wounded by five AP3 weapons, they DO seem to get a FNP roll despite the AP3 not allowing them their normal armour saves, I have spoken to several friends at GW and this is how they play the rule.
I must admit I always have my doubts about anonymous people on the net spouting off the gospel of how they read the rules-I question their objectivness.

This goes against what I (and others) have thought before, bit I will man up and admit I may have been wrong, if the same squad was hit by five AP 1 or 2 weapons they would be dead-no save, no FNP. This is how it works against shooting attacks they get their FNP as long as it does not inflict instant death (twice toughness) or as said is AP1 or AP2.

Close combat attacks that allow NO save ie power weapons, fists etc do NOT allow FNP

I hope that we can now draw a line under this one, and this is how the rule will be played in the campaign. Of course if you and your opponent disagree feel free to compromise tongue
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Re: Feel No Pain

Post  Johnny KTOU on 2010-11-08, 21:29

I must admit I always have my doubts about anonymous people on the net spouting off the gospel of how they read the rules-I question their objectivness.
Agreed; but I start to know the people that are on there (who's is only playing by RAW, who is good sportsmanship, can be trusted, etc...) and I also double check on another forum (smaller but most of them play since the start of WH40k).

The problem with the rules in general is to find a balance between the RAW rules and the common sense. A few people follow the RAW (Read as written) at the letter which can sometimes end up with silly things: Black Templars Terminators have a 2+ save but don't have a 5+ Inv save as they don't wear a Terminator Armour; fast skimmers that scout don't get their 4+ save for moving flat out on their scout turn, as it needs to be a movement phase... Well that kind of stuff...

For FNP what sounded weird was that Harker (or orks for the matter) couldn't use FNP against a bolter (!), or Dark Eldar (6+ save) can't use it either against any weapon (save lasgun and grot pistol).

I guess it's just finding a balance... I'm sure we'll find more grey areas to argue over though...
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