Codices getting better or getting worse

right as your all aware my views on more of the newer codices are well a bit a lame to say the least and as you also know i tried the old chaos codex out in the year against elvis with the newer one to try and get my point across that some of the older codices can keep up with the newer ones ok so i was wrong about the chaos one but i still think that there are a lot of cool ideas that should of been kept from the old one i.e chaos damons should have never been released as a seperate codex as they were quite at home in the chaos one.

But lookin back on the other army i play i cant help but feel as if the designers at GW took one look at the old nid codex and thought what can we do to ruin the nid players life so they decided to take the perfectly good decent 4th ed codex and throw it off into the pit of nerfblivion and then chased it with an angry mob all armed with nerf sticks and left in a bloody and helpless 5th ed mess

ok dont get me wrong i enjoy playing against you guys but tbh the codex could be a.. lot more fun, i look back at the old tyranid codex and i feel its playable and competitive enough to not limit me in my choice of units which imo is rather bland, its like being a kid and being told what you can and can not do

now on the upside there are brilliant things in the 5th ed codex dont get me wrong but i cant help but feel that the 4th ed one is better overall

but then again i could be entirely wrong because i wasnt here for 4th ed and its just my comparison betweent the two

p.s
sorry if my little rants annoy you but i feel i need to get these opinions across

The great thing about Bloodbowl, GW don't TOUCH the rules set any more...


HAAAAA- LEY- LUUU-YAARRR!!!

I think it's a bit tricky... Codice have always been more powerful than the previous ones and always will be: it will be against GW money-money ethics to try and sell you something not as good as the last thing that came out as it wouldn't attract any new players.

The only exception is probably the Necron Codex... From powerful to... Well what we got now...

The Tyranids is no exception there. The Codex is more powerful than the previous one, unfortunaltely it doesn't involve the same units at all - Carnifexes, Hive Tyrant for example... That and the fact that it has an awful internal balance: the Codex has been very poorly designed and although most units are still playable, they get outshined by some others; especially when all the necessary units are all in the same FOC.

On the opposite, IG, the Codex has never been that good, after not beeing not competitive for about 10 years... It has a few internal balance issues (lots of interesting choices in the Fast Attack slots), but overall it allows you to be able play everything, and to do it well.

To be on GW's side, game designing is awfully hard. The meta game shifts all the time and it's even harder when 40k Editions change (I believe Nids was the first of the 5th ed)

It's not really a secret, mech armies are at the top now. Having a transport was nearly a penalty before but now, an unprotected troop is a dead one. Nids has this problem I guess, and look at what weapon people take: tell me one that is not working against Nids. Hopefully the 6th edition will change a bit in favor of troops...

Giraffe wrote:The great thing about Bloodbowl, GW don't TOUCH the rules set any more...


HAAAAA- LEY- LUUU-YAARRR!!!

Only because they dumped the game Yeah but you don't have a nicely printed rulebook to show us; you also won't have any new models from them, you won't have new cards, new trophies, new boards...

Even More HAA-LAY-LUU-YAH!

We (the Bloodbowl community) dumped GW, not the other way round...who in their right mind pays GW prices any more? They only "Dumped the game" as we weren't giving them loads of our hard earnt cash...

Plus there's plenty of smaller miniature manufacturers making much better minis than GW could ever be arsed to make, we don't need to print rulebooks as the rules can be memorised more or less, we've got the NAF behind bloodbowl plus a really strong tourney circiuit where each organiser sorts a unique trophy plus custom cards, boards etc, we argue less, and are better looking...ok scratch that last bit!

...But otherwise Stephane you are COMPLETELY right!

Na, seriously, I can see the attraction of 40K, I just cannot afford GW (or the stress of the Rules Clarification battles)

Playing 11 figurines in squares makes rules a lot easier to remember that's true, but books and fluff from the creators ARE part of the hobby, so is their support. I'm not saying you can't play the game, but you lose the story and background that was set behind it; Blood Bowl tournament for example is not anymore.

And also we've lost the evolution of the game, the potential new teams, options, types of games... Sure you can have some guys that pull their fingers and make the game more interesting, add stuff and create new things but there won't be something that makes it official and quite as well supported as GW could have.

And no, sorry, GW dumped the game, and on their conditions, even leaving a last ruleset, on pdf.

See, you can't even stop arguing on forums?

True GW have washed their hands of us to an extent, but you have to admit on balance we're better for it...the NAFC was better organised (despite me helping), £15 cheaper, and better supported than the BBGT ever was...

And the fact GW will not relinquish the rights means they know Bloodbowl still is marketable and may yet resurge into the main market...

If fact, considering how expensive GW's miniatures are getting I see a not-to-distant-fututre where even 40k armies consist of only 20-30 miniatures (at £40-50 each) ..then bloodbowl will be commercially viable again, dammit! (nuffle help us!)

But for now I'm happy at my ruleset as it is, at least until the lure of 40k overwhelms me(I'm slowly geting the bug, Deathwatch is helping too, necromunda may push me over the edge)...what I think dissuades bloodbowlers from 40k (despite having to sell a kidney to procure an army) is all the whining about the rules... but to be fair to you lot, with a rule set that big, the frustration is kind of designed into the game so I suppose you need an outlet...

Perhaps we at BRGA could remove / provide an outlet for all of this frustration by making one simple rule: instead of all the half-hour arguments on 40k rules discrepancies at the club, both players simply go outside to scream "Waarrrggh" to proclaim their hatred for the 40k broken rules(or we could soundproof the cupboard with egg boxes), then laugh and feel better, before rolling a dice (or picking the rule decision that is "most fun for both players") to decide the outcome...is winning as important as having a good FUN battle? Doesn't winning when rules made the difference feel wrong? I don't mean to suggest by that last comment that any of you would ever cheat, I mean when the rules made it unfair for your opponent, couldn't you just say "ok, lets play a fairer rule tonight instead, a compromise. Or I'll give you an extra chance to roll that, seeing as the rules are so Cuck-Socky"

I'd rather lose a bloodbowl match than win due to an error in the rules that made it unfair for my opponent (remind me of this stephane during our upcoming match)!

Right, I'll finally shut up now (hurrah you all say)

Giraffe wrote:Even More HAA-LAY-LUU-YAH!

We (the Bloodbowl community) dumped GW, not the other way round...who in their right mind pays GW prices any more? They only "Dumped the game" as we weren't giving them loads of our hard earnt cash...

rumour is that BB might be making a limited ala Space Hulk style return in the near future....

Not to be taking sides, but I know many players that think blood bowl is much better off with out games workshop by its side. I evan know some games workshop store manergers who buy non-games workshop minitures all the time just because the games workshop minitures are (not to be rude) poo poo.

They have to change them around so that you have to get new stuff, it is very simple really. If they did not change the way the codexs and indeed the main rules worked you would not keep getting new stuff and they would go bust lol.
You can bet when 6th ed comes out it will be geared to making people purchase things that they would not normally use a lot of =) just like when 5th ed game out every one got tones of troops cos they where scoring.

As for the new nid dex vs old. Well they had to tone down a few things so people would get those massive worm critters they spend all that time and money making.
To be honest I am pleased I was sick to death of seeing nothing but fex running around the table.

I can bet you the next codex to come out will be more powerful than the last codex of any given race with lots of cool stuff that maks you want to collect a whole new army =)