It's here 6th is here the wait is over ( well nearly)

After the video I must say I'm looking forward as I must say I have found 40k lacking in current months. I'm hoping it opens up things for older harder to play army's so it dosnt come down to who does close combat the the best. Psykers might become a part of my da now we get more than 2 powers. Tanks having hull points. 5th has been gd to us given us a year of bonding fun arguments and friendship. So here's hoping this new edition brings the fun back and gives us the back and forth of fantasy insted of 1st turn I've lost or I've been eattern by big hairy men on wolves. I'm off next week end anyone want to go to gw and get 6th with me

I've pre ordered my copy this morning soon as I got up. Took me half an hour to decide which one to order!

pre ordered mine too...decided to forgo the man bag tho

I went for the man bag... What does that say about me?

Fire-Warrior wrote:I went for the man bag... What does that say about me?

Er nothing mate....nothing at all

I must admit I looked at it and thought am I gonna use that? and the answer was no. Might get the tin dicey thing at some point as I believe they are doing those to order at a later date

It was that or the special edition book, im a sucker for a gimic!

I did consider the *special* book but decided to get the normal one on the bases that I will probably pick up the starter set (if the models are as good as the fantasy set) and couldn't justify the cost to myself tbh

This is why i need a job . Would of liked to get the man bag one

Collector's editions already sold out Was gonna get the Gamer's one... Blimey that was quick...

Don't worry I'll let you look at mine

Does this mean the manbag is sold out?!!?

Man bag is sold out, yes...

And yes Chris, please, you know what I can do do to a tank

Whilst you men of questionable orientation were talking about fashion, I've been balls deep in the new rules. Pretty much SM got a buff, DE got a nerf. No more tears, only dreams.

stop moaning tom there is no way matt ward would hurt ur lovly dark eldar

1 - Raiders and Ravagers 3HP
2 - Voidraven and Razorwing 3HP
3 - Venom 2HP
4 - Stormtalon 2HP
5 - The other fliers 3HP (stormraven, ork and necron fliers)
6 - Unusual power weapons AP3. I feel bad about this.
7 - Rapid fire = 1 shot at max range, 2 shots at half range. Moving doesn't count (you can move and fire 1 shot at max range i.e. 24" for our splinters)

Vehicles:
If a vehicle doesn't move, it can fire every weapon.
If a vehicle move 6" or less (combat speed), can fire 1 weapon normally plus every other weapon at BS1
If a vehicle move 6"-12" (cruising speed) can fire all his weapon at BS1(no templates)
A vehicle can go flat out in the shooting phase for extra 6"
Vehicles need only to be in cover for 25% and gain 5+ cover. If you can't see the side of a vehicle the vehicle gains an extra +1 cover.
You can disembark from a transport moved more than 6"
Open topped vehicles give the possibility to charge when the infantry disembark (assault vehicle rule), +1 on the damage table and every point of the vehicle is an access point and a fire point.
Fast vehicles can flat out for 12" and can fire all their weapon if they go Combat Speed or 2 weapons if they go Cruising (Ravager has Aerial Assault remember and the DAIS can now fire 2 lances at full BS and 1 lance at BS1)
Fast skimmers can flat out for 18".
Fast skimmers have Jink, cover 5+ if they move or 4+ if they go flat out. NICE NERF TO FF!

Preferred Enemy: you can reroll 1s to wound and to hit, shooting and melee.
Night vision: immune to night.
Fleet: you can reroll to run or to charge. ONE OR MORE DICES!2

Bikes and jebikes: they have hammer of wrath rule, Jink, Relentless, can turbo for 12" or 24" if jetbikes. Eldar Jetbikes can move 2d6 in the assault phase and turbo for 36" (and still can move 2d6 extra in the assault phase). Skilled Rider gives +1 Jink save.

Poison: you can chose to wound with your str instead of a fixed number if you have a better value. Tyranids rejoice.
Furious Charge: only +1 to str

Reserves: During the second turn you roll for every unit. On 3+ they come in play. On the third turn it's again 3+. On the fourth turn they automatically come in play. Flyers can go out of the table and go to the reserves and automatically come in play the turn after.

Fliers can fire max 2 missiles per turn and they count as weapons, so a zooming flyer can fire max 4 weapons (2 lances, 2 missiles for example). Bombs are the same, and are used in the movement phase but you can fire to a different unit in the shooting phase.

How is the 5+ cover a nerf to flickerfield? You (and everyone) get it for free now

Also, 3 HP for a cardboard Raider? Not bad I guess. The HP system also allows the transport to mainly "ignore" the glances so the delivery system gets a boost. The AP system means the Penetration table probably averages the same, so it means so far no nerf really...

All Dark Lances are AP 2 (+1 on penetration chart)...

Reserve system now increases the viability of the WWP (and other Deep Strike armies). And you can add an Autarch for 2+ reserve rolls.

Fleet is awesome !

Jetbikes now get a 4+ cover save all the time, not just when going flat out; and they obviously also get their extra hammer of wrath attacks (you'll need to go for the non caltrop version though).

Wasn't that bad Tom, eh? Feeling better?
Personnally I'm glad to see the Nids getting some love (apart from allies, but it's kinda understandable...)

Seems that everyone has what dark eldar already had ur not nerfd we have been brought up

I'm okay, with the new rules, I'll just never be assaulting again. All gunboat spam.

I'll still be running my close combat lists

The max range a land raider can move so that it's Terminators can assault afterwards -> 6"
The max range a raider can move so that it's Wyches can assault afterwards -> 6"

Fleet is not awesome. A terminator can get transported six", move six", assault 2d6". A wych can get transported 6", move 6" and assault 2d6" with a re-roll. You compare that to the previous edition. Our max assault range has been nerfed by like 6 inches, fair enough, first turn assault is pretty harsh. However, our average assault range has fall through the floor to about 20", compared to a terminator who has an assault range of about 18.5".

Unable to assault when coming on from reserves, so no more webway portal assaults.

The inability to penetrate +2 armor saves anymore with melee weapons (Unless I want to go at Initiative 1).

The plus side is all in DE shooting.

Hull points are nice in that we can now glance things to death. The ability to move 12" and shoot everyone inside (at BS1, but we can get a re-roll upgrade for our transports) is pretty good, considering the rapid fire change means that's 36" range of shooting.

Good job I have enough gunboats.

No assault out of a WWP, well, I didn't know, that's a bummer... What it means is that WWP won't be used in order to assault ASAP anymore, but rather to reposition the whole army: it's still invaluable but i's just not as straight forward as before; different edition, and different use of the WW i guess.

The example of the terminators is not great to be honest. You're comparing about 450 points worth of terminators (5 termies in a LR) against 250 of DE (9 incubi in a raider)... Of course they're gonna beat you in combat and still have a good charge range. And we only lost about 3.5" range (used to be 12+2+3.5+6=23.5" against about 20" now), it's not such a big deal as most of the time we didn't actually rely on the run roll to make it into combat. (and the max assault range used to be 26" 1/6th of the times and is now... 22" 1/6th of the time and max max range is 24" - again, not that big a deal when looking at how many times these couple of inches did matter)

Terminators have received a boost, yes, but only the regular termies; the assault ones with storm shield were using the their 3++ inv save against the power weapons already anyway, so again, we're not up against much more now. Termies were supposed to be the ultimate unit, and for 450 points, they were not that fantastic. The 2+ save units are not that common, and if you find some, yes, please, do shoot them; but that's not news, you should be doing that anyway.

All in all, our tarpit unit is still as good, incubi are still great against MEq in general and we still have a great mobility.

Also, in 5th edition, were not all the very competitive lists already gunboats anyway?

Johnny KTOU wrote:No assault out of a WWP, well, I didn't know, that's a bummer... What it means is that WWP won't be used in order to assault ASAP anymore, but rather to reposition the whole army: it's still invaluable but i's just not as straight forward as before; different edition, and different use of the WW i guess.

I don't follow the re-position argument. We cannot walk through one and come out of another. It's effectively a 35pt 3" impassable terrain we can deploy.

Johnny KTOU wrote:The example of the terminators is not great to be honest. You're comparing about 450 points worth of terminators (5 termies in a LR) against 250 of DE (9 incubi in a raider)... Of course they're gonna beat you in combat

Never said who should win the combat. I merely said that "the most mobile army in the game" is as mobile as terminators. There is an issue here.

Johnny KTOU wrote:And we only lost about 3.5" range (used to be 12+2+3.5+6=23.5" against about 20" now), it's not such a big deal as most of the time we didn't actually rely on the run roll to make it into combat. (and the max assault range used to be 26" 1/6th of the times and is now... 22" 1/6th of the time and max max range is 24" - again, not that big a deal when looking at how many times these couple of inches did matter)

In fifth: move 12, disembark 2, fleet d6, assault 6: for a total of 21+d6, average: 23.5 inches.
In sixth: move 6, disembark 6, charge 2d6: for a total of 12+2d6, average: 19 inches.

Great, we just lost 22.5% charge range.

Moreover, averages are only half the story, by definition. When you play for lowest possible outcome, we were guaranteed 21" In 6th our max guaranteed assault range is 14". Whilst the max assault range has been reduced by 2", the minimum assault range has been massively nerfed.

This in and of itself isn't such a bad thing, however, as I said previously, this is exactly the same as terminators, except for the fact that we get to re-roll one or both dice (and keep the result).

Johnny KTOU wrote:Terminators have received a boost, yes, but only the regular termies; the assault ones with storm shield were using the their 3++ inv save against the power weapons already anyway, so again, we're not up against much more now.

The situation hasn't changed that much. Before you throw wyches are terminators to slow them down and maybe the Agonizer kills 1 Terminator a round, maybe. Now we tarpit them and kill nothing until our lances are finished with the rest of their army.

Johnny KTOU wrote:The 2+ save units are not that common, and if you find some, yes, please, do shoot them; but that's not news, you should be doing that anyway.

Apart from on a vast number of SM SC's and HQ's. With the new rules, Vect's staff can no longer break through a SM's armour. So I get a 2++ that fails if I roll a 1. Your 2+ stays throughout the fight.

Johnny KTOU wrote:we still have a great mobility.

Also, in 5th edition, were not all the very competitive lists already gunboats anyway?

Competitive, yes? However you could still win with Wych cult lists and assault lists. Now it's next to impossible.

It should also be noted that Open Topped vehicles explode at Str4 now, so using Raider's as a delivery system for wyches no longer works. We cannot assault out of WWP's and our Raiders have an even higher chance of wiping the squad out if it gets poked.

Again, I just want to remind ya'll that I'm merely talking about how DE assault has been nerfed and by in large DE shooting has been improved. I just find it frustrating that the slowest, tankiest SM unit moves just as fast as the fastest xeno unit.

The reposition part was about having a second board edge. Not at the edge of the table, but anywhere else. It's 35pts to have your units ready to appear on turn 2 next to an objective or whatever else. As you can't assault, no, you won't deploy the WWP as far as you can next to the ennemy, you'll just deploy it a bit further from them. It's not obviously as good as the previous one, but the improvement in reserve do balance it a bit.

How are terminators not a mobile unit? There are an assault squad in an assault vehicle, designed to drive into the ennemy lines. It shouldn't be as fast as a DE, and it's not, but it's still supposed to be pretty mobile. And again, terminators in a LR were barely a unit players used to take, they were so expensive... And it's not like the regular SM were the most overpowered armies ever. This boost barely puts termies back in the game.

You also had it right the first time. Move twice + fleet (reroll) on 2d6 is about 20" (average is 7 on 2d6 with reroll it's at least 8 - imagine rolling 6 and 1, and you can reroll the 1; anyway, the math gets quite complicated there but there's no way the average ends up under 20") So the argument stands, you can talk in percentage if you want, we've still only lost less than 3.5 inches on average.

Your worst possible outcome hasn't got the same odds to happen though (1 in 6 in 5th against 1 in 12th in 6th edition). Same for the best outcome. You are now more likely to roll you average 6-8" and you also have the reroll for that.

And Wyches haven't been designed to do some damage or to have any offensive output, we've worked that out already in 5th. 3 attacks of agonisers causing 0.75 wound before saves won't change that, especially when there has always been a 3++ save behind. Same for the 2+ saves guys, we were already only shooting them in 5th, nothing changes !

And assault wise, you are also forgetting the bikes, MC, jump infantry all with their new special attacks.

Assault definitely hasn't been nerfed, and if it has, it will be the same as the other armies have been affected.

We'll see. I'll keep fielding assault units and I'll do my best to make it work, but it'll be a fun challenge.

Blargh, decided to adopt my SC2 mentality towards this. The change has happened. Completely forgot 5th even existed and now use the only edition to the best that I can. Here we go.

Oh, and Matt Ward didn't write the DE codex Elvis.